I know all of you are aching to discuss the text in more detail. Since we just don't have enough time in class, you now have a chance to continue this discussion at home. Make sure to post and reply to your assigned group.
Friday, March 12, 2010
Group 5
5) Nelly Dean is an ideal narrator for the story, as she is not motivated by revenge or malice.
Post by Monday before class and reply by Wednesday before class.
I believe that Nelly is indeed the ideal narrator of the story, since she understands the perspectives of most characters of the plot without taking sides. Mrs. Dean also demonstrates great understanding of each character, as she served both Wuthering Heights and Thrushcross Grange. She worked with the intention of bettering the lives of the residents of each, never working against a specific person. She displays this intent to Edgar after he is furious with her for telling him about Catherine’s illness. She refutes him, stating, “I performed the duty of a faithful servant in telling you” (Bronte 121). In taking her job seriously, Nelly develops a selflessness which allows her to recognize and appreciate the needs of every individual around her, allowing her to respect each character’s opinion. She has no intent to use revenge against those whom she disagrees with, because she believes this goes against the requirements of her occupation, by not working for the good of her masters.
It's true that Nelly is an ideal narrator. One of the primary characteristics she possesses is that she was there for the entire story. The only other character like that (and who is also still alive) is Heathcliff, who's far too bent on vengeance to tell the story right. As Nelly describes Heathcliff in chapter 8, she tells Lockwood about how Heathcliff enjoys tormenting Hindley, saying, "He delighted to witness Hindley degrading himself past redemption and became daily more notable for savage sullenness and ferocity" (60-61). Nelly describes how Heathcliff enjoyed watching Hindley fall from grace. And if he enjoyed watching it, imagine how much he would enjoy telling it.
I agree that Nelly in some aspects is an ideal narrator as she is not motivated by revenge, however, her story is bias in other ways. It seemed that Nelly felt responsibility for some of the terrible acts that were carried out. Growing up with the family from childhood, she connected with the family herself, and she seemed to feel regret for not stopping their chain of revenge that tore them down. For example, just after she describes to Mr. Lockport how Heathcliff told her about his plans to get revenge on Hindley, she suddenly says, “’I’m annoyed how I should dream of chattering on at such a rate: and your gruel cold, and you nodding for bed!’…but I felt incapable of moving from the hearth, and I was very far from nodding” (56). The fact that Nelly comes up with an invalid excuse to leave shows that she may have been feeling uncomfortable with how she responded in the situation and regretful for not doing enough to stop him from getting revenge. This, however, creates a biased point of view, as she skips ahead in the story, leaving parts out.
I also agree Nelly is an ideal narrator in the fact that she doesn't want revenge but, I also agree with Jenny that she is still bias. I feel she is very bias toward Catherine. This is seen when Catherine and Nelly are discussing her marriage proposal and Catherine states, "Nelly, I see now, you think me a selfish wretch"(76). Catherine thought Nelly was her friend and is surprised by her enmity toward her, which she has just realized. Right after this, Nelly again throws Catherine under the bus when Heathciff leaves and Catherine waits up all night for him. Mr. Earnshaw comes over and Nelly immediately says, "...and there she has sat the night through, and I couldn't prevail her to stir"(81). Nelly purposefully brings up how Catherine has been up all night waiting for Heathcliff and then tells Mr. Earnshaw. Nelly very much dislikes Catherine and this is seen in the way she narrates the story.
As I already stated, I believe Nelly is an ideal narrator. After she has finished narrating the first part of the story, she states, "However, if I am to follow my story in true gossip's fashion, I had better go on"(58). She admits to narrating in "true gossip's fashion" and this further solidifies her angle of the story. Gossip is told with no care for the people involved in the actually gossip and this is true for Nelly. She just likes telling gossip, not actually being part of it.
I agree that Nelly does indeed have a slightly biased perspective, but I don’t believe that this hinders her ability to accurately tell the facts of the situation. Nelly doesn’t have any motivation to use revenge to intentionally degrade any of the residents of Wuthering Heights or Thrushcross Grange. When being questioned by Lockwood about Heathcliff, Mrs. Dean states she could reliably explain his past, claiming, “I certainly esteem myself a steady, reasonable kind of body” (58). Nelly is too peaceful and interested in the greater good to hold grudges against Heathcliff or any others from the past, thus qualifying her as a reliable and accurate narrator. She contains “wisdom” from having “undergone sharp discipline” (58) that allows her to realize a greater importance in honesty rather than vengeance. Mrs. Dean doesn’t allow her biases to control her actions so is able to truthfully recall the instances of Wuthering Heights.
I agree with Paul that Nelly may be slightly bias, but still gets past that and is able to tell the facts. I also think it is important to look at who she is telling the story to. In this case, she is telling it to Mr. Linton, her master, and being at an authority level above her, it wouldn't be smart to lie to him. However, the story may be slightly exaggerated as she seems to be telling this story to entertain him, as she is telling it in "true gossip's fashion" (58). However, I believe this would only lead her to exaggerate parts of the story to make it more exciting, but not change any of the true facts, as she is talking with someone of greater authority over her.
I agree with all of you in terms of Nelly being biased but it not getting in the way of the story. I think it's also important to take into account the fact that Nelly isn't an intelligent woman. She has common sense, but she's ignorant on some issues and that comes out in some of her accounts. When she first starts telling the story, she says that she and Hindley "plagued and went on with him shamefully: for I wasn't reasonable enough to feel my injustice" (34). This may actually help improve her account, since she here shows that she's capable of presenting facts about actions without realising their implications. This way, Lockwood gets more of a feature story and less of an editorial.
I believe that Nelly is indeed the ideal narrator of the story, since she understands the perspectives of most characters of the plot without taking sides. Mrs. Dean also demonstrates great understanding of each character, as she served both Wuthering Heights and Thrushcross Grange. She worked with the intention of bettering the lives of the residents of each, never working against a specific person. She displays this intent to Edgar after he is furious with her for telling him about Catherine’s illness. She refutes him, stating, “I performed the duty of a faithful servant in telling you” (Bronte 121). In taking her job seriously, Nelly develops a selflessness which allows her to recognize and appreciate the needs of every individual around her, allowing her to respect each character’s opinion. She has no intent to use revenge against those whom she disagrees with, because she believes this goes against the requirements of her occupation, by not working for the good of her masters.
ReplyDeleteIt's true that Nelly is an ideal narrator. One of the primary characteristics she possesses is that she was there for the entire story. The only other character like that (and who is also still alive) is Heathcliff, who's far too bent on vengeance to tell the story right. As Nelly describes Heathcliff in chapter 8, she tells Lockwood about how Heathcliff enjoys tormenting Hindley, saying, "He delighted to witness Hindley degrading himself past redemption and became daily more notable for savage sullenness and ferocity" (60-61). Nelly describes how Heathcliff enjoyed watching Hindley fall from grace. And if he enjoyed watching it, imagine how much he would enjoy telling it.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Nelly in some aspects is an ideal narrator as she is not motivated by revenge, however, her story is bias in other ways. It seemed that Nelly felt responsibility for some of the terrible acts that were carried out. Growing up with the family from childhood, she connected with the family herself, and she seemed to feel regret for not stopping their chain of revenge that tore them down. For example, just after she describes to Mr. Lockport how Heathcliff told her about his plans to get revenge on Hindley, she suddenly says, “’I’m annoyed how I should dream of chattering on at such a rate: and your gruel cold, and you nodding for bed!’…but I felt incapable of moving from the hearth, and I was very far from nodding” (56). The fact that Nelly comes up with an invalid excuse to leave shows that she may have been feeling uncomfortable with how she responded in the situation and regretful for not doing enough to stop him from getting revenge. This, however, creates a biased point of view, as she skips ahead in the story, leaving parts out.
ReplyDeleteI also agree Nelly is an ideal narrator in the fact that she doesn't want revenge but, I also agree with Jenny that she is still bias. I feel she is very bias toward Catherine. This is seen when Catherine and Nelly are discussing her marriage proposal and Catherine states, "Nelly, I see now, you think me a selfish wretch"(76). Catherine thought Nelly was her friend and is surprised by her enmity toward her, which she has just realized. Right after this, Nelly again throws Catherine under the bus when Heathciff leaves and Catherine waits up all night for him. Mr. Earnshaw comes over and Nelly immediately says, "...and there she has sat the night through, and I couldn't prevail her to stir"(81). Nelly purposefully brings up how Catherine has been up all night waiting for Heathcliff and then tells Mr. Earnshaw. Nelly very much dislikes Catherine and this is seen in the way she narrates the story.
ReplyDeleteAs I already stated, I believe Nelly is an ideal narrator. After she has finished narrating the first part of the story, she states, "However, if I am to follow my story in true gossip's fashion, I had better go on"(58). She admits to narrating in "true gossip's fashion" and this further solidifies her angle of the story. Gossip is told with no care for the people involved in the actually gossip and this is true for Nelly. She just likes telling gossip, not actually being part of it.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Nelly does indeed have a slightly biased perspective, but I don’t believe that this hinders her ability to accurately tell the facts of the situation. Nelly doesn’t have any motivation to use revenge to intentionally degrade any of the residents of Wuthering Heights or Thrushcross Grange. When being questioned by Lockwood about Heathcliff, Mrs. Dean states she could reliably explain his past, claiming, “I certainly esteem myself a steady, reasonable kind of body” (58). Nelly is too peaceful and interested in the greater good to hold grudges against Heathcliff or any others from the past, thus qualifying her as a reliable and accurate narrator. She contains “wisdom” from having “undergone sharp discipline” (58) that allows her to realize a greater importance in honesty rather than vengeance. Mrs. Dean doesn’t allow her biases to control her actions so is able to truthfully recall the instances of Wuthering Heights.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Paul that Nelly may be slightly bias, but still gets past that and is able to tell the facts. I also think it is important to look at who she is telling the story to. In this case, she is telling it to Mr. Linton, her master, and being at an authority level above her, it wouldn't be smart to lie to him. However, the story may be slightly exaggerated as she seems to be telling this story to entertain him, as she is telling it in "true gossip's fashion" (58). However, I believe this would only lead her to exaggerate parts of the story to make it more exciting, but not change any of the true facts, as she is talking with someone of greater authority over her.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all of you in terms of Nelly being biased but it not getting in the way of the story. I think it's also important to take into account the fact that Nelly isn't an intelligent woman. She has common sense, but she's ignorant on some issues and that comes out in some of her accounts. When she first starts telling the story, she says that she and Hindley "plagued and went on with him shamefully: for I wasn't reasonable enough to feel my injustice" (34). This may actually help improve her account, since she here shows that she's capable of presenting facts about actions without realising their implications. This way, Lockwood gets more of a feature story and less of an editorial.
ReplyDelete