I know all of you are aching to discuss the text in more detail. Since we just don't have enough time in class, you now have a chance to continue this discussion at home. Make sure to post and reply to your assigned group.
Friday, March 12, 2010
Group 3
3) Heathcliff’s return to Thrushcross Grange, his marriage to Isabella, and his guardianship over Hareton are motivated by hate, not love.
Post by Monday before class and reply by Wednesday before class.
Heathcliff is most definitely motivated by hate rather than love. Near the beginning of the novel, Heathcliff shares how he plans to "pay Hindley back"(56), and time is not an issue as he also does not "...care how long I wait, if I can only do it at last. I hope he will not die before I do! (56). Heathcliff wants to ensure that Hindley's life will be a miserable one; he finds that returning to Thrushcross Grange and inheriting Wuthering Heights will allow him to have revenge upon Hindley. Additionally, Heathcliff's guardianship over Hareton gives him the opportunity to treat Hindley's heir as he was treated as a child. Lastly, Heathcliff feels no love for Isabella; he uses her as leverage to make Catherine jealous and to hurt Edgar.
I believe this statement is both true and false. Heathcliff is motivated not only by his hatred for Hindley but also by love, but only to the extent of his love for Catherine. I agree with Dan that Heathcliff does not love Isabella, he is using her as a form of revenge against Catherine and Edgar, and seemingly it works: "Her brother, who loved her tenderly, was appalled by this fantastic preference."(79) He will always love Catherine and feels that "If he loved with all the powers of his puny being, he couldn't love as much in eighty years as I could in a day."(117) His return to Thrushcross Grange is motivated by hate due to his desire for revenge. He wants to claim the inheritance of Isabella, which does not go unnoticed by others, "She's her brother's heir, is she not?"(84) Ultimately however, he does everything for the sake of revenge and his love for Catherine.
I agree with Paige's statement to the extent that he does love Catherine, but I don't think that's actually why he returned to Thrushcross Grange. His actual return and subsequent plotting is because of his hate for Hindley, what Hindley represents in his life, and, to a certain extent, his hatred for what Catherine has become and the choices she's made. His hatred overpowered his love because if he was really out plotting and conniving based on his love for Catherine, he would be trying to woo her and win her back and convince her to run away and marry him and whatnot. Instead he's set on seeking revenge for what's been done to him. Thus he is motivated by his rage and hatred for what has become of his life.
I agree with Dan, that Heathcliff was motivated by intense hatred for his lost and unsuccesful love. He had no empathy and humanity left after Catherine's marriage. His wife, Hareton, Catherine, his son Linton all suffered because he was not able to see anyone happy. He just wanted to prove how powerful he was. Isabella wrote to Nelly : "Is Mr. Heathcliff a man? If so, is he mad? And if not is he a devil?" (129) He had no love for Isabella and she was merely used to hurt the Lintons. Also he destroys Cathy's, Linton's and Hareton's life by keeping them as his subjects to his utmost and brutal tyranny.
I gotta give Heathcliff credit for being so Machiavellian in his revenge/plotting, it was very clever. Even after Isabella's death, Heathcliff uses her as a weapon against Edgar and Edgar's daughter, Cathy. "Linton denied anyone ever hated their wives; but Cathy affirmed they did, and, in her wisdom, instanced his own father's aversion to her aunt" (224). So clearly it had become known in the family that Heathcliff did everything agaisnt Isabella, purely for the sake of revenge and not out of love. His hatred for Edgar is no doubt exacerbated by the existance of Catherine's daughter and so must continue to "avenge" Catherine's memory.
OrangeLghtsbr14, you couldn't have said it any better! I definitely agree that Heathcliff's return was in no way motivated by love, but rather by his desire to seek vengeance upon Hindley. However, I do not believe he also returned to punish Catherine. He goes as far to state: "'I seek no revenge on you,' replied Heathcliff, less vehemently. 'That's not the plan.'"(106). Clearly, Heathcliff still cares for Catherine in some way, or at least has an alterior motive to not seek revenge upon her. His "plan" is centered around the destruction of Hindley, not Catherine.
Yeah Hans has raised a nice point here. In the last part of the story, Heathcliff's revenge revolves around the life of little Cathy. Heathcliff is technically taking the revenge from Catherine and Edgar,because they had a daughter; and he was never able to achieve his love. Also this depicted his personality - that he cannot bear that what he doesnt have, the others acquire it or the other way around. Heathcliff when Catherine died: "I cannot live without my soul!" (158). He never got his love again back in any shape and as the time passed Heathcliff became more revengeful. Cathy said to Heathcliff: "You cannot make us hate each other." (269)This shows that Heathcliff's motives were very visible in the sense what he did with his son Linton and Catherine's daughter Cathy.
First, note that I have changed my display name because it was causing some confusion amongst my peers. I agree with what people have been saying about how all that Heathcliff is doing is because of the revenge he wants against everyone for mistreating him, but I have to add that I think there's some part of him that's angry at Catherine and is also seeking revenge on (against?) her. I think part of him is like 'You passed on me, so now I'm going to ruin everything you loved.'. It definitely shows in the end (to the audience as well as everyone in the story) when he's being cruel to Cathy, because she wasn't even around during the original snafu with Catherine and Hindly and Hareton and everyone.
Heathcliff is most definitely motivated by hate rather than love. Near the beginning of the novel, Heathcliff shares how he plans to "pay Hindley back"(56), and time is not an issue as he also does not "...care how long I wait, if I can only do it at last. I hope he will not die before I do! (56). Heathcliff wants to ensure that Hindley's life will be a miserable one; he finds that returning to Thrushcross Grange and inheriting Wuthering Heights will allow him to have revenge upon Hindley.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, Heathcliff's guardianship over Hareton gives him the opportunity to treat Hindley's heir as he was treated as a child.
Lastly, Heathcliff feels no love for Isabella; he uses her as leverage to make Catherine jealous and to hurt Edgar.
I believe this statement is both true and false. Heathcliff is motivated not only by his hatred for Hindley but also by love, but only to the extent of his love for Catherine. I agree with Dan that Heathcliff does not love Isabella, he is using her as a form of revenge against Catherine and Edgar, and seemingly it works: "Her brother, who loved her tenderly, was appalled by this fantastic preference."(79) He will always love Catherine and feels that "If he loved with all the powers of his puny being, he couldn't love as much in eighty years as I could in a day."(117) His return to Thrushcross Grange is motivated by hate due to his desire for revenge. He wants to claim the inheritance of Isabella, which does not go unnoticed by others, "She's her brother's heir, is she not?"(84) Ultimately however, he does everything for the sake of revenge and his love for Catherine.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Paige's statement to the extent that he does love Catherine, but I don't think that's actually why he returned to Thrushcross Grange. His actual return and subsequent plotting is because of his hate for Hindley, what Hindley represents in his life, and, to a certain extent, his hatred for what Catherine has become and the choices she's made. His hatred overpowered his love because if he was really out plotting and conniving based on his love for Catherine, he would be trying to woo her and win her back and convince her to run away and marry him and whatnot. Instead he's set on seeking revenge for what's been done to him. Thus he is motivated by his rage and hatred for what has become of his life.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dan, that Heathcliff was motivated by intense hatred for his lost and unsuccesful love. He had no empathy and humanity left after Catherine's marriage. His wife, Hareton, Catherine, his son Linton all suffered because he was not able to see anyone happy. He just wanted to prove how powerful he was. Isabella wrote to Nelly : "Is Mr. Heathcliff a man? If so, is he mad? And if not is he a devil?" (129)
ReplyDeleteHe had no love for Isabella and she was merely used to hurt the Lintons. Also he destroys Cathy's, Linton's and Hareton's life by keeping them as his subjects to his utmost and brutal tyranny.
I gotta give Heathcliff credit for being so Machiavellian in his revenge/plotting, it was very clever. Even after Isabella's death, Heathcliff uses her as a weapon against Edgar and Edgar's daughter, Cathy. "Linton denied anyone ever hated their wives; but Cathy affirmed they did, and, in her wisdom, instanced his own father's aversion to her aunt" (224). So clearly it had become known in the family that Heathcliff did everything agaisnt Isabella, purely for the sake of revenge and not out of love. His hatred for Edgar is no doubt exacerbated by the existance of Catherine's daughter and so must continue to "avenge" Catherine's memory.
ReplyDeleteOrangeLghtsbr14, you couldn't have said it any better! I definitely agree that Heathcliff's return was in no way motivated by love, but rather by his desire to seek vengeance upon Hindley. However, I do not believe he also returned to punish Catherine. He goes as far to state: "'I seek no revenge on you,' replied Heathcliff, less vehemently. 'That's not the plan.'"(106). Clearly, Heathcliff still cares for Catherine in some way, or at least has an alterior motive to not seek revenge upon her. His "plan" is centered around the destruction of Hindley, not Catherine.
ReplyDeleteYeah Hans has raised a nice point here. In the last part of the story, Heathcliff's revenge revolves around the life of little Cathy. Heathcliff is technically taking the revenge from Catherine and Edgar,because they had a daughter; and he was never able to achieve his love. Also this depicted his personality - that he cannot bear that what he doesnt have, the others acquire it or the other way around. Heathcliff when Catherine died: "I cannot live without my soul!" (158). He never got his love again back in any shape and as the time passed Heathcliff became more revengeful. Cathy said to Heathcliff: "You cannot make us hate each other." (269)This shows that Heathcliff's motives were very visible in the sense what he did with his son Linton and Catherine's daughter Cathy.
ReplyDeleteFirst, note that I have changed my display name because it was causing some confusion amongst my peers.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what people have been saying about how all that Heathcliff is doing is because of the revenge he wants against everyone for mistreating him, but I have to add that I think there's some part of him that's angry at Catherine and is also seeking revenge on (against?) her. I think part of him is like 'You passed on me, so now I'm going to ruin everything you loved.'. It definitely shows in the end (to the audience as well as everyone in the story) when he's being cruel to Cathy, because she wasn't even around during the original snafu with Catherine and Hindly and Hareton and everyone.